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Subject: Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc
Enzo    2/26/2005 4:17:22 PM
I find it interesting that everyone always compares everything to the M1A2.... if history tells us anything, wouldn't a Leo vs. LeClerc engagement be more likely? J/K...LOL
 
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boer    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   2/27/2005 7:07:27 AM
The leo 2a6 has better armor, a beter gun and it fires beter rounds http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm
 
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MIRAGE    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   2/27/2005 3:45:29 PM
lol, nice source! asumingits from tripod, is it your site? :)
 
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Aussie Matt    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   2/28/2005 5:11:47 AM
I love the LeClerc, the only problem is the frogs make them!
 
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boer    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   2/28/2005 8:51:31 AM
no, it isnt my site. :(
 
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Bluewings    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/27/2005 11:57:33 PM
This one is a hard call ... I take the one who has the best crew ;-) Cheers .
 
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Eagle601    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/28/2005 1:40:38 AM
Ihe LeClerc is faster and a smaller target. The Leopard has better armor, gun, and ammo. Also the LeClerc uses an autoloader, which is just one more thing to break, plus it slows the rate of fire and gives you one less man to do repairs and maintenance. Assuming equal or near equal crews and numbers I'd take the Leopard.
 
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Shirrush    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/28/2005 2:41:37 PM
Sales numbers tell it all. Every army in Europe now has Leo II's, while only a couple of hundreds of Leclercs were ever exported to some rich Gulf Arabs that, being no-one's suckers, also demanded their Leclercs to be motorized with...Leo II's powerpack! It would also have been easier and cheaper for France itself to get a license for making their own Leos II-Fr while keeping their industrial-technological base in business. Now the French will have to do with less than 400 of the world's costliest tanks, and lots of tinpot wheelie armored cars too, whereas Germany will still be able to afford the fielding of as many as 1,700 real MBT's. Now YOU tell me who's got the credibility!
 
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Eagle601    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/28/2005 4:29:40 PM
Giving France's history of intervening in the affairs of its formoe colonies in Africa quite often, a force of mostly light armor and infantry makes more sense then an overly heavy one with lots of MBTs and IFVs. I honestly don't see Germany invading France again, even if it happens I'm sure the US and UK will liberate them again.
 
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french stratege    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/29/2005 1:54:36 PM
"The Leopard has better armor, gun, and ammo. " - False for the armor and Leclerc has independant survival cell for the crew and smaller surfaces, front and lateral. - False for the firepower: German new gun is slightly longuer but Leclerc has DU APFSDS shells for France only. - False for rate of fire due to autoloader also. The problem for Leclerc is that it cost 2 m$ more/unit and it has reliability problem until last years.But it was necessary for us to maintain our competence in designing tanks, and to produce our own model.400 units seems sufficient for our needs today even if I would prefer to get a thousand.Initial batch was 1400 then reduced for end of cold war to 800 then 650 then 406 which is already more numerous than UK army.We still have 540 AMX30B2 most in reserve (similar to M60A3).
 
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boer    RE:Leopard IIA6 vs. LeClerc   3/29/2005 2:59:58 PM
The armor of the leo2a6 is better Leclerc (ke) Turret: 900 Glacis: 500, (ce) Turret: 1700 Glacis 830. Leopard 2A6 (ke) Turret: 920-940Glacis: 620 ,(ce) Turret: 1730-1960 Glacis:750 http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm Of the rounds i'm not completely sure, because the latest french rounds specs on the site was from 1995. French 120mm OFL120E2 DU 640mm at 2km (1995) German 120mm/L55 DM-53 810mm at 2km (2001) http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm
 
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