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Subject: Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.
G3A3 7.62mm    10/4/2005 7:50:24 PM
Pakistans Al Khalid just as good as the M1 Abrams although it has a bigger gun than the M1 abrams the abrams gun is 120mm the al khalid gun 125mm another thing is that the Al khalid is not a gas guzzler like the M1 Abrams other than that both tanks have night and thermal vision equipment and auto targeting. the Alkhlid has a speed of 45 miles per hour. ANother great thing is that 6 Al Khalids can be bought where for the same price only 1 M1 Abrams can be bought so in some areas the ALkhalid is better than the M1 Abrams.
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Desertmole    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/5/2005 2:55:45 AM
I wouldn't count on it. Considering it is based on a Chinese T-90 that is, in turn, based on stolen data of the Soviet T-72. T-72s did not stand up at all to the M-1s during Desert Storm or OIF. The kill ratio was about several hundred to 0. The only M-1s killed during Desert Storm were killed by other M-1s, other types of friendly fire or by mines, and there were only 7 of those. Presumably the Pakistanis have better ammunition than the Iraqis had, but M-1 protection has been improved since DS as well.
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Raslin    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/5/2005 3:05:19 AM
For starters, bigger does not mean better. I think its a better comparison between a leclerc than an M1 though, both being newer tanks, using autoloaders, etc. Though I am not 100% knowledgable about the Al khalid, afaik, the cannon is one of the chinese 125mm smoothbores, and the Chinese aren't exactly known for their tanks(other than rumours you hear about supertanks that never come to light). I have yet to see any 125mm's better than a 120mm L44, much less an L52 or 55(to compare with other tanks as well). It can also fire only 7,5 rounds a minute, as opposed to the 12 of the leclerc. It uses a lowly 1200hp engine. It takes it 10 seconds to accelerate to 32km/h. Compare this to a LeClerc, which takes four seconds to do so with its 1500hp engine(28.3 hp per ton as opposed to 26 for Al Khalid). The Leclerc also has a longer tange, 550km unaided to the Al Khalid's 400. Not all electronics are equal. If the French can claim to be at the top of something, its tank electronics. Systems like FINDERs, and Icone, give it unprecedented ability in the field. French laser range finders, etc are often sought out to be stuck on russian vehicles, as they are much better than eastern ones. The Al Khalid has a 70kmh speed, which isn't saying much. Most modern MBT's, western at least, have 68-70kmh speeds, and quite higher in reality than on paper. The important part is the HP per ton. This is only 26 on the Al Khalid, 2.3 less than on the LeClerc. An M1a1 costs about 5 million dollars, a LeClerc about 7m. Are you insinuating that an Al Khalid only costs $833,000 dollars each? I would like to see this very much. Most people believe it will cost around 2.5-3m dollars each. And while Pakistan makes big claims, I seriously doubt such a cheap tank has as good armour as they say, especially with all the other extra's.
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Raslin    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/5/2005 3:11:31 AM
I forgot a few things. A. I seriously doubt Pakistani ammunition compares to APFSDS ammunition of the west, especially the DU used by the west(especially US). B. They make a big deal about being able to accuratly hit targets further away than 2000m away... Wow... thats not very impressive. I'd be quite interested in seeing the range on this 125mm cannon, 10 bucks says its less than 4km. C. Seeing as this tank isn't even out yet, we can compare it to the M1a2 SEP possibly, or LeClerc MK10/11, depending when it finally makes its way out.
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GOP    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/7/2005 1:10:42 AM
Possibly, but Pakistani tank crews are no match for US or British tank crews
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Weasel    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/7/2005 7:29:51 AM
I think its noteworthy that pakistan has made their own MBT. But comparing it to an M1A1 is a bit of a stretch. The M1A1's killzone was better than a T-72 in Desert storm and it has expanded a great deal since then. I wouldn't doubt that it could take out 5 to 7 Al Khalids before they got close enough to shoot effectively. An M1A2 SLEP would be deadlier again. Thats not to disparage Pakistani tank crews. Its just math. They would be very, very brave men to try it.
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svaba    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/7/2005 3:37:51 PM
Simple answer is that this is (better) version of T-72 and I dont belive it can compete(wery well)with Abrams and other western tanks.
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Bluewings    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/8/2005 10:27:36 AM
You cannot compare the Al Khalid with the Abrams , Leclerc , Leopard or Merkava . Al Khalid is nothing but a very average Tank . Cheers .
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WinsettZ    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/8/2005 11:17:02 AM
The record for a tank kill is 4 or 5 km with a Challenger in GW1. I think mike_golf (now Black_7) said that he had achieved kills at 3-4 km range or so. The Soviet 125mm is bigger because it's a lower velocity shell. That ties into the lower range. It might be better than Iraq's T-72s, but barring major armor miracles they'll get chewed up at a prodigious rate.
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GOP    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/8/2005 1:11:40 PM
There is definitely a 'monopoly' (for lack of a better word, may not be used correctly) on tanks. Against the big 5 (Chally, Leopard, Leclearc, Merkava, M1) no other tank can survive. Unlike fighter jets, where you have several contenders (the F-15, SU-27, Gripen, Eurofighter, Rafale, Mig 29, F-22, F-16), tanks have only 5 contenders and the rest are old pieces of junk
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Yimmy    RE:Pakistans Al khalid tank Just as good.   10/8/2005 2:05:06 PM
"Against the big 5 (Chally, Leopard, Leclearc, Merkava, M1)" I think there are a few more than that GOP. For instance the Japanese Type 90(?), the South Korean mini-Abrams, and the Italian one.
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