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Subject: Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??
DropBear    6/13/2005 4:53:55 AM
In response to lacrobat's comment wrt "Why not cut the JSFs entirely?" I am interested to know how many of you believe the F-111, F-18 and Hawk127 are a complete waste of time, resources, money, training, funding, manpower etc etc etc... What would you spend the allocated funds on otherwise? You know my views, what are yours...
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AMTP10E    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:00:12 AM
I'm a Navy man and I say that you can abolish the RAAF combat fleet over my dead body. As much as I give then stick for being civies in uniform, they are a needed part of the defence triad.
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DropBear    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:02:15 AM
Civvies in uniform?? You honestly think that a fastjet pilot is just some lacky who isn't up to the same standards as a naval officer/sailor??
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tjkhan    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:03:29 AM
For what it's worth, not me. For years the army has gone without, now things have been redressed. The navy needs to be properly equipped, as does the airforce. We are not New Zealand, and never should allow our nation to become dependent upon another for basic self defence. If what we need is more money to meet our object6ives, then it is essential the right buttons a pressed in Canberra. I've just about finished my first glass of a good white.
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lacrobat    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:13:12 AM
Justify the RAAF combat fleet. What does it actually do v what does it cost? It comes out of such a comparision very, very badly.
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ThePuss    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:15:08 AM
Drop Bear 1% of the AirForce are flyers, The rest are just part of a very long tail. Needed? Yes, Civvies in uniform? Well no but......
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DropBear    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:28:38 AM
Yes thanks, I am aware of the fact that there are only about 700 flying positions in a force of over 15,000. My point was that some suggest that the combat portion are not justified. I'd like to know what we will replace them with. As for the argument that things should only be kept if they are used every day, then one could abolish about 90% of the ADF. Pretty lame argument. So the F-111 hasn't fired weapons in anger on a foreign battleground, so what, neither have pieces of equipment from other services. The reason we haven't needed to use the Pig offensively is that it has done its job as a deterrent admirably.
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AMTP10E    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet?? - DB   6/13/2005 5:29:22 AM
Just poking some light hearted fun at the RAAF, so relax. OK? To defend Australia we need all three services and I'll fight any move to weaken any of them.
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southern cross    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/13/2005 5:47:17 AM
Absolutely not. Combat airpower is very important, i would stress we have too little of it, not too much. But Hugh White's comment that the AWD plans should be scrapped for more jets is ludicrous (see other thread). Such favouritism of the forces is not in anybodies interests, and he should not try and sway the public into his way of thinking.
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tjkhan    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet?? - DB   6/13/2005 5:49:25 AM
The other point to remember is that in WWII, our combat aircraft were probably the weakest eleemnet of our armed forces at the time. If they had been stronger, if they had been able to be moved forward and defend Singapore with world class aircraft (in sufficient numbers) , maybe things would have been quite different. We may not have held Singapore but, just maybe: 1) The landings north eastern malaya and Thailand may have been interuppted; 2) Repulse and the Prince of Wales may have survived, 3) The retreat from Malaya may have been more organised, 4) We may have held Singapore long enough to have got most of our, and the British and Indian troops, out. It's, of course, all speculative, but just like talking about our ability to rely on allies in the naval field to provide the "major assets", we cannot take for granted that allies will have available air assets to protect our troops when the going gets tough.
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DropBear    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet?? - SC   6/13/2005 5:52:01 AM
I think he is actually saying that JSF numbers will decline if the AWD's go ahead. Not that we should buy more jets at the expense of the boats. Besides, is anyone else here concerned that THREE boats are budgeted at $6 Billion?? $10-15 Billion would buy 100 JSF. I just hope the AWD program doesn't blow out beyond that figure. P.S. I heard an Anzac cost $500 million to build, is $2billion for the AWD justified?? Where is the cost - extra missiles, radar or the "buy Oz" phenomena. Just curious...
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