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Subject: New Defence Cuts
Kirkzzy    2/1/2011 1:23:28 AM
From the ABC news. "Defence Minister Stephen Smith today announced a shake-up of some of the nation's biggest Defence assets. Among the projects which are being scrapped or reviewed are the LCM2000 landing craft project, the high-profile MRH-90 helicopter program, and a scheme to protect diggers from improvised bombs in Afghanistan. Mr Smith says the changes will not blow the Defence budget, which is still on track to find $20 billion in savings. But he has warned the department needs to be more rigorous in its procurement process. "We're announcing that the [LCM2000] watercraft project has been cancelled and will not continue," he said. "That's a project which has been outstanding for some time, [in] 1997 it was started by the previous government. "The great tragedy of this project is that when the watercraft were produced, they were not in the position to be utilised by Australian defence forces. "So that project regrettably is cancelled at a cost of some $40 million to the Commonwealth." The landing craft have been found to be too heavy and too big to be launched from HMAS Kanimbla and Manoora. They cannot be used for anything else, so Defence will now have to dispose of them. Defence has been plagued by expensive project cancellations and reviews and today's announcements by Mr Smith and the Minister for Defence Materiel, Jason Clare, continue that tradition. "As you would have gathered from the cancellation of that project, that was not a project which Defence covered itself in glory, at a cost of some $40 million to the Australian taxpayer," Mr Smith said. "This is precisely what we are seeking to avoid in the future." Also on the operating table is the high-profile MRH-90 helicopter project. Australia has ordered 46 new MRH-90 helicopters but the project is already at least a year behind schedule because of problems with engine failure, oil cool fan failures and a shortage of spare parts. "The proposed replacement to the Sea King and the Black Hawk will be the subject of a fully-fledged diagnostic review," Mr Smith said. "That project has been the subject of delays and technological difficulties." In dock The HMAS Manoora transport ship has sailed for the last time and the sea-worthiness of HMAS Kanimbla is in doubt. HMAS Kanimbla will be in dock for at least 18 months, so the search is on for replacements. In the short term, the Government is looking at leasing a ship from Britain, but Mr Clare says Defence will buy two new replacements. "These ships are bigger than any ships Navy has ever operated before," he said. "They are bigger than our last aircraft carrier, HMAS Melbourne. "They are two football field lengths in size, they can carry up to 1,000 troops, up to 100 armoured vehicles as well as 12 helicopters. "The way they operate will be very different to the ships that we've got now." The Government has also decided to abandon work on another couple of fronts - measures to protect troops in the field. "One which is to do with hearing protection is not - the technology's not available to effect that - so that project will not continue," Mr Smith said. "A second project - a high technology, anti-IED measure, will also not proceed on the basis that the technological application is not currently available." Mr Smith says Defence needs to develop early-warning mechanisms to avoid costly and time consuming cancellations and delays, and that will be the subject of a reform package to be developed in the first half of this year. But the Minister does not blame Defence hierarchy or the head of the Defence Materiel Organisation, Stephen Gumley. "I have the highest regard for Dr Gumley, as I have the highest regard for the Secretary of Defence, as I have the highest regard for the CDF and the service chiefs," he said. "We're dealing here with an institutional problem that the institution of Defence itself has to grapple with and come to terms with. "In the past, there has been too much of an attitude or a culture that irrespective of the cost, irrespective of the outcome, a Defence project was somehow immune from rigour. "That is no longer the case. It has not been the case under this Government and we need to put in place further detailed internal rigour and early-warning systems to avoid the sorry repeat of these examples, of which the ones we've detailed today are but one or two examples.""
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Kirkzzy       2/1/2011 1:25:04 AM

So what does this mean for Aus with the LCMs being cancelled? Anything major? And more importantly with the MRH-90s, will they be able to continue or will we just get new blackhawks? 
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gf0012-aust       2/1/2011 2:35:08 AM

institutional problem???

ferk off, they go through the processes defined by government and specifically cabinet.  

defence can't get anything through without government and senior cabinet oversight - and that includes 3 non defence departments putting in their 2 bobs worth.

there have been some huge ferk ups in the past but defence has been aggressive in cutting the dead wood.

perhaps they should check on the actual cabinet and NSC process before blaming the institutional behaviour.  maybe someone should also ask whether any other govt agencies are "encouraged" to use australian companies to assist when it just does not make good financial sense.

they can't have their cake and eat it too.  

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Kirkzzy       2/1/2011 4:06:49 AM
The government should let the defence work independently and just point them in the direction they want, but nothing major only supplying the budget and making sure there is no corruption or anything and everything is in check. That means with their own budget the defence department could make there own decisions which aren't influenced by politics. Meaning they could probably have gotten a lot better equipment then we currently have for a lesser price as well. (buying overseas)
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Kirkzzy       2/1/2011 4:39:57 AM

To honourable Gf0012-Aust

I am new to this site.

I note very bad language. Why do yoou say "ferk off"

Please speak real englisn so I can undestand.

Also having read your site why are you so nasty to Air Power Autralia.

I do not understand. Surely everone is entitled to opinion, and you can then reply?

Kind Regards

... Wow shit, did he say ferk instead of f*ck! Damn that is so bad, yes he must brush up on his english skills.
And as for bagging Air Power Australia I agree with you, they are really cool people that come up with brilliant conclusions out of no evidence whatsoever and always fail to give reasons for their conclusions. Just making up random shit as they go pfft... They are really cool, almost as cool as A Current Affair and Today Tonight

/sarcasm off 
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gf0012-aust       2/1/2011 5:37:22 AM

I note very bad language. Why do yoou say "ferk off"

It is not impolite or bad language.  Impolite is to use the usual reproductive invective.  I guess its the chinese heritage of my ancestors that makes me disrespect those particular westerners who don't know what they talk about and pretend that they do

Please speak real englisn so I can undestand.  

that would be impolite.  but seeing that you are concerned about good manners, could you please ask APA to stop being rude to me and to also stop stalking me via the internet - its a little disturbing to see grown men who can't control their anger and want to visit violence on people via the confines of the internet.  

Also having read your site why are you so nasty to Air Power Autralia.

I don't have a site

I do not understand. Surely everone is entitled to opinion, and you can then reply?

I did reply but I don't suffer morons.  I have an opinion, you've obviously seen it and thats all that counts, whether you like my opinion is irrelevant, but you apparently have more patience and I am happy for you.  I don't need to have anyone agree with me.  I also will not look at APAs website as everytime someone does, they get a web hit and a payment.  I object to giving money to those who are lazy and don't work for it.  

Nice pictures and pretend analysis done on a home computer does not mean that they are credible.  if that impresses you then what can I say.  Join their web site, increase their web hits and they will love you for accepting them as analysts.

Kind Regards


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gf0012-aust       2/1/2011 8:30:07 PM

You did not answer my question.

Airpower Australia( I have read their articles) would appear to be someone who brings forward an opinion.

Why, if you do not agree come up with a counter argument.

Surely in debate this is normal.

Why are you so rude? Are you an angry person?

This is not right.


english is obviously not your primary langauge - and thats fine,  but make the effort to understand whats been saod rather than recycling your prev without comprehending whats been said before.
you obviously have a lower toleration of whats rude.
and I'm far from angry, as stated, I just have no patience for morons. I will be polite and accomodating as much as possible.  at some point I will not be
when you know me you know how jolly I am in real life.
please don't waste my time with this dross though.
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Kirkzzy       2/2/2011 1:35:22 AM
Could we keep this thread related? Who honestly cares if someone swears? "Oh shit! HE SAID A BAD WORD THAT MAKES HIM A BAD PERSON!" Please this is a military discussion forum, and is in no way personal.
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gf0012-aust       2/2/2011 2:10:31 AM

good grief

in the first instance I have someone pretending to want to be interested in my views when they're well know already

in the second, I now have a tailgater who thinks that I was having a conversation with him and comes in out of left field 

are you the same person?

the bottom line,  welcome to democracy and private forums.  if you want my opinion then search on google or visit any number of forums where I have passed comment

whether you think I am rude or not is irrelevant.  I fundamentally am disinterested in any view you have as its apparent that you have your own agenda - if you had the remotest idea you would have made the effort and discovered quite clearly why I discount the dross coming from APA. 

"poofoo valve" on the prev post??  spend some time growing up as well.

you will find any number of friends on APA and AvWeek where Goon (Horde) and the rest of his followers can continue to have their aviation kumbayah meetings.

if you are going to use multiple nics at least make the effort to try and change your approach.

ta ta....

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jackjack       2/2/2011 2:50:00 AM
MATE, i feel for your sensitivity, it must be such a burden, to point out what you fell is the error of their ways
at least this is keeping you off the street and i'm sure your local community is thankful for that
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gf0012-aust       2/2/2011 2:19:16 PM
stop pretending to be a non anglo - its demeaning 
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